• Dad'ism

    From Charles Stephenson@1:226/17 to All on Wed Nov 14 17:19:42 2018
    All,

    I just wanna say I'm a father of 5 (son 24, daughter 20, daughter 10, son 5) and 5 grandkids (2 boys 3 girls) and I love them all, but damn seems like the older ones give you more headaches than when they were kids!!!

    Love them to death!
    Regards,
    KrUpTiOn
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier 2: thenewfrontier2.hopto.org (OH) (1:226/17)
  • From Jeff Smith@1:282/1031 to Charles Stephenson on Thu Nov 15 02:12:02 2018
    Hello Charles,

    I just wanna say I'm a father of 5 (son 24, daughter 20, daughter 10, son 5) and 5 grandkids (2 boys 3 girls) and I love them all, but damn seems like the older ones give you more headaches than when they were kids!!!

    Me thinks part of it is the time we (They) live in and the social differences that exist today versus when we young. I can only speak from life experiences but many of today's teens have little respect. And I don't really blame today's teen. Children learn behavior and attitudes based upon what they see around them. Another major factor in my opinion is the amount of technology and
    the impact it has had on today's kids. And I don't mean just today's teens. Heck, I see 4-6 year old's walking around with cell phones texting away. Gone are the days when kids played games outside with other kids and had face to face social interactions with other kids.

    We look at today through yesterdays eyes. What we as parents and grandparents see today has become the new norm for today's kids. I have six kids (4 Boys, 2 Girls). Some are respectful and use words like please, thank you, sir, and mam.
    While others are likely to tell you to go get screwed. Non of my kids are teens
    any longer and now have their own kids who in some cases have their own kids.

    I'll pause here as being a parent is one of those discussion topics that can seem endless. :-)

    Love them to death!

    That's all one can really do.


    Jeff


    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Fidoneet: The Ouija Board - Anoka, MN -bbs.ouijabrd.ne\ (1:282/1031)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Charles Stephenson on Thu Nov 15 07:53:12 2018
    On 2018 Nov 14 17:19:42, you wrote to All:

    I just wanna say I'm a father of 5 (son 24, daughter 20, daughter 10, son 5)

    that's only four ;)

    i have had two sons... one died in an accident 10 (almost 11) years ago... he gave me two grand-daughters; the first before i was ~38... my youngest son, please, someone bless him, has given me three grand-children... two girls and a
    boy... sadly, i haven't seen any of the five in years... i use to try to hunt them down but it became much too much effort for way too little ROI :(

    and 5 grandkids (2 boys 3 girls) and I love them all, but damn seems
    like the older ones give you more headaches than when they were
    kids!!!

    ain't that the truth :/

    Love them to death!

    that is, quite literally, all we can do...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... You are assuming I learned and remembered. Dream on, old friend.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/17 to Jeff Smith on Thu Nov 15 08:30:43 2018
    Re: Dad'ism
    By: Jeff Smith to Charles Stephenson on Thu Nov 15 2018 02:12 am

    Hello Charles,

    Me thinks part of it is the time we (They) live in and the social differences that exist today versus when we young. I can only speak from life experiences but many of today's teens have little respect. And I don't really blame today's teen. Children learn behavior and attitudes based upon what they see around them. Another major factor in my opinion is the amount of technology and
    the impact it has had on today's kids. And I don't mean just today's teens. Heck, I see 4-6 year old's walking around with cell phones texting away. Gone are the days when kids played games outside with other kids and had face to face social interactions with other kids.

    Yeah social networking is killing the 'local family unit'. No more board games, family dinners... I miss those days! :(

    Seems like our generation was the last to do it. I did it with my kids, as much as I could, but when they be came parents, all that training went out the door.

    While others are likely to tell you to go get screwed. Non of my kids are teens any longer and now have their own kids who in some cases have their own kids.

    Yeah, my oldest is in prison, not the life he saw around me but all I can do is love him.

    I'll pause here as being a parent is one of those discussion topics that can seem endless. :-)

    Amen Brother!
    Regards,
    KrUpTiOn
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier 2: thenewfrontier2.hopto.org (OH) (1:226/17)
  • From NANCY BACKUS@1:123/140 to CHARLES STEPHENSON on Thu Nov 15 22:24:00 2018
    Quoting Charles Stephenson to All on 11-14-18 17:24 <=-

    I just wanna say I'm a father of 5 (son 24, daughter 20, daughter 10,
    son 5) and 5 grandkids (2 boys 3 girls) and I love them all, but damn seems like the older ones give you more headaches than when they were kids!!!

    I only see 4 kids listed there.... ;) I have an only son that's almost
    45... headaches do seem to come with the territory, and they're always
    your kids, even when they are supposedly grown and on their own.... ;)

    Love them to death!

    Yup. :)

    ttyl neb

    ... The Blueberry was sad because her mom was in a jam!

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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Charles Stephenson on Fri Nov 16 09:39:00 2018
    Charles Stephenson wrote to Jeff Smith <=-

    Yeah social networking is killing the 'local family unit'. No more
    board games, family dinners... I miss those days! :(

    My kids are 15 and 9, and we still have family dinners every night, with at least one of the parents. Once a week we do a game night and unplug the
    phones.

    We rediscovered Yahtzee last week - one of my favorite games when I was a
    kid. $3 at my local thrift shop with a full set of scoring pads and the old-school plastic leather-grained dice cup.




    ... Have you ever seen anything like this place?
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  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/17 to mark lewis on Thu Nov 15 23:49:45 2018
    Re: Dad'ism
    By: mark lewis to Charles Stephenson on Thu Nov 15 2018 07:53 am


    I just wanna say I'm a father of 5 (son 24, daughter 20, daughter
    10, son 5)

    that's only four ;)

    hehe! it's called old age! I have what my mother has! She'll call me the wrong son's name, and hold a conversation, I got tired of correcting her YEARS ago, so I just answser, she knows it's me, just get the names mixed up! I'm just glad I didn't have alot more kids, or I'd have ALL their names mixed up! I woulda just done what George Foreman did, and name all my son's George!

    i have had two sons... one died in an accident 10 (almost 11) years ago... he gave me two grand-daughters; the first before i was ~38... my youngest son, please, someone bless him, has given me three grand-children... two girls and a
    boy... sadly, i haven't seen any of the five in years... i use to try to hunt them down but it became much too much effort for way too little ROI :(

    Sorry for your loss. :( 2 of my grands I haven't seen since I've been home from prison. Her and her 'boyfriend' kid's father took off to Arizona. Where he got her using drugs and...well.. it's not a good story to tell. Like you, I've been trying to locate them. She'll occasionally call me, and I try to stay 'calm' so I can get some info about where they are. Soon as I find out, I'm gonig down there.
    Regards,
    KrUpTiOn
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier 2: thenewfrontier2.hopto.org (OH) (1:226/17)
  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/17 to Kurt Weiske on Sun Nov 18 12:37:18 2018
    Re: Re: Dad'ism
    By: Kurt Weiske to Charles Stephenson on Fri Nov 16 2018 09:39 am

    Charles Stephenson wrote to Jeff Smith <=-

    My kids are 15 and 9, and we still have family dinners every night, with at least one of the parents. Once a week we do a game night and unplug the phones.

    We did that when my kids were kids, I was hoping they enjoyed it enough to want to continue the tradition. It's why I did it!


    We rediscovered Yahtzee last week - one of my favorite games when I was a kid. $3 at my local thrift shop with a full set of scoring pads and the old-school plastic leather-grained dice cup.

    I love Yahtzee! We did the boardgame thing too, it was hard to have my kids turn off their cellphones during family night, they aced like I just did the mst utmost evil thing in the world! They started out mad, but got into it after time. I think it was more of a 'giving in' thing, because I wasn't gonna stop! Regards,
    KrUpTiOn
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier 2: thenewfrontier2.hopto.org (OH) (1:226/17)
  • From Chad Adams@1:19/37 to Charles Stephenson on Sat Apr 25 23:17:40 2020
    I love Yahtzee! We did the boardgame thing too, it was hard to have my kids turn off their cellphones during family night, they aced like I
    just did the mst utmost evil thing in the world! They started out mad,
    but got into it after time. I think it was more of a 'giving in' thing, because I wasn't gonna stop! Regards,
    KrUpTiOn
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier 2: thenewfrontier2.hopto.org (OH) (1:226/17)

    My kids aren't at that age yet.... I am dreading it...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The ByteXchange BBS | bbs.thebytexchange.com (1:19/37)
  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/17 to Richard Miles on Mon May 11 04:43:33 2020
    Re: Dad'ism
    By: Richard Miles to Charles Stephenson on Wed May 06 2020 06:05 am

    Have a new granddaughter here so I am getting to relive some of that. Time definitely paints things in a much rosier light, that's for sure.

    One of the wonderful things about being a grandparent I learned from the very first day. Sugar up the grands, and send them back to the parents! >:)
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier ][ BBS [frontierbbs.net:23] - OH (1:226/17)
  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/17 to Dennisk on Mon May 11 04:45:52 2020
    Re: Re: Dad'ism
    By: Dennisk to Charles Stephenson on Wed May 06 2020 09:53 pm

    I can't say I miss those days. The important milestones are when they learn to wipe the own orifices. It is great to know your child can go to the toilet, without your assistance. That is the age they can stay.



    I thought that the first few years too, then I missed it! I knew the problems my kids would have, I could easily fix while they were in diapers. :(

    Now they're out in the same world as me, and that world is turning to crap. All I want to do is protect them!
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier ][ BBS [frontierbbs.net:23] - OH (1:226/17)
  • From Dennisk@3:633/416 to Charles Stephenson on Tue May 12 08:53:00 2020
    Charles Stephenson wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Dad'ism
    By: Dennisk to Charles Stephenson on Wed May 06 2020 09:53 pm

    I can't say I miss those days. The important milestones are when they learn to wipe the own orifices. It is great to know your child can go to the toilet, without your assistance. That is the age they can stay.



    I thought that the first few years too, then I missed it! I knew the problems my kids would have, I could easily fix while they were in diapers. :(

    Now they're out in the same world as me, and that world is turning to crap. All I want to do is protect them!
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier ][ BBS [frontierbbs.net:23] - OH (1:226/17)

    I hear you, and I do see your point. The mess in the nappies is far better to deal with than the mess in the real world. That is the hardest part of being a father, having your generation leave a good legacy for the next one. I kind of think that when you become a parent, that is just as much a responsibility of yours, as is feeding them and cleaning them.

    ... Dennis Katsonis
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    * Origin: Mind's Eye BBS - mindseye.ddns.net - Australia (3:633/416)
  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/16 to Dennisk on Wed May 27 18:29:54 2020
    On May 11th 8:00 pm Dennisk said...
    I hear you, and I do see your point. The mess in the nappies is far better to deal with than the mess in the real world. That is the hardest part of being a father, having your generation leave a good legacy for the next one. I kind of think that when you become a parent, that is just as much a responsibility of yours, as is feeding them and cleaning them.


    I wish other fathers (all parents) realized this important fact. So many put the blame on others, what the 'other' generation. It takes a little effort, but OUR generation can make things better for our kids.



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.11-beta (linux; x64; 10.16.3)
    * Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS |frontierbbs.net:8888| OH (1:226/16)
  • From Dennisk@3:633/416 to Charles Stephenson on Thu May 28 18:41:00 2020
    Charles Stephenson wrote to Dennisk <=-


    On May 11th 8:00 pm Dennisk said...
    I hear you, and I do see your point. The mess in the nappies is far better to deal with than the mess in the real world. That is the hardest part of being a father, having your generation leave a good legacy for
    the next one. I kind of think that when you become a parent, that is
    just as much a responsibility of yours, as is feeding them and cleaning them.


    I wish other fathers (all parents) realized this important fact. So
    many put the blame on others, what the 'other' generation. It takes a little effort, but OUR generation can make things better for our kids.

    Whether we can make a difference or not, I don't know. But we DO have to take responisibility. We can't just limit our responisbility to our own household and job. We all have a responsibility to our community, our neighbourhood, our world, the earth. Just because we have managers and elected officials, it doesn't absolve us of taking some responsibility and control.

    ... Dennis Katsonis
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    * Origin: Mind's Eye BBS - mindseye.ddns.net - Australia (3:633/416)
  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/17 to Dennisk on Thu May 28 19:26:39 2020
    Re: Re: Dad'ism
    By: Dennisk to Charles Stephenson on Thu May 28 2020 06:41 pm

    Whether we can make a difference or not, I don't know. But we DO have to take responisibility. We can't just limit our responisbility to our own household and job. We all have a responsibility to our community, our neighbourhood, our world, the earth. Just because we have managers and elected officials, it doesn't absolve us of taking some responsibility and control.

    VERY well said. I couldn't have said it better myself. I personally try to follow that creed, I won't say I do it often, but I DO, do it. I need to do more. And then, that's never enough. I used to be active in teen activities, groups and clubs. Its been years though. *I* need to do more.

    Thanks for reminding me!
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier ][ BBS [frontierbbs.net:23] - OH (1:226/17)
  • From Dennisk@3:633/416 to Charles Stephenson on Fri May 29 18:39:00 2020
    Charles Stephenson wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Dad'ism
    By: Dennisk to Charles Stephenson on Thu May 28 2020 06:41 pm

    Whether we can make a difference or not, I don't know. But we DO have to take responisibility. We can't just limit our responisbility to our own household and job. We all have a responsibility to our community, our neighbourhood, our world, the earth. Just because we have managers and elected officials, it doesn't absolve us of taking some responsibility and control.

    VERY well said. I couldn't have said it better myself. I personally try
    to follow that creed, I won't say I do it often, but I DO, do it. I
    need to do more. And then, that's never enough. I used to be active in teen activities, groups and clubs. Its been years though. *I* need to
    do more.

    It is hard to do, but its good to hear people at least acknowledge it. Often one feels powerless to do the right thing, especially when your job depends on you acting to the contrary. But even speaking up, or just letting others know that there is a conflict is much better than nothing.

    Dennis Katsonis
    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    * Origin: Mind's Eye BBS - mindseye.ddns.net - Australia (3:633/416)
  • From Doug Cooper@1:227/702 to Dennisk on Sat May 30 20:36:07 2020
    Replying to both ... my apologies, my fingers are on fire this evening ...
    too many post replies ...

    VERY well said. I couldn't have said it better myself. I personally t to follow that creed, I won't say I do it often, but I DO, do it. I need to do more. And then, that's never enough. I used to be active i teen activities, groups and clubs. Its been years though. *I* need to do more.

    CS -- I tried various clubs and was disappointed. Most were just rich old
    guys writing checks and meeting weekly for lunch. Any actual volunteer work they conjured up did not really sit well as being helpful to the community,
    nor the world. And, when I would participate, those writing the checks were never there. So .. I flipped a lot of hot dogs and sorted a lot of canned goods at the food pantry, while they wrote checks to suppor them and moved on with their pretensious week. What have you found most valueble to teach your kids through action, that falls in line with being responsible to more then just ones household?

    It is hard to do, but its good to hear people at least acknowledge it. Often one feels powerless to do the right thing, especially when your
    job depends on you acting to the contrary. But even speaking up, or
    just letting others know that there is a conflict is much better than nothing.

    I quit corporate life for the very reason of most conflicting wtih my
    policital or social views. I do not mean this maliciously, hoowever if my
    mom had not passed, I'd still be required to work for corporations. I was blessed with a mom that saved every penny she could her entire life. She
    never made more than $15 per hour at most, that I recall, but she saved much more then I thought a person could at that type of pay -- especially living
    in new york.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (1:227/702)
  • From Dennis Katsonis to Doug Cooper on Sat May 30 20:31:11 2020
    Re: Re: Dad'ism
    By: Doug Cooper to Dennisk on Sat May 30 2020 20:36:07

    I quit corporate life for the very reason of most conflicting wtih my policital or social views. I do not mean this maliciously, hoowever if my mom had not passed, I'd still be required to work for corporations. I was blessed with a mom that saved every penny she could her entire life. She never made more than $15 per hour at most, that I recall, but she saved much more then I thought a person could at that type of pay -- especially living in new york.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (1:227/702)

    I wish I could do the same too. I could change careers, but that would result in a drop in salary that I can't really make work at the moment. I can't change the company from within, because no matter how much they talk about "values", they are all the same really. In fact, the MORE a company talks about value, the worse it behaves.
  • From Doug Cooper@1:227/702 to Dennis Katsonis on Sat May 30 23:55:32 2020
    I wish I could do the same too. I could change careers, but that would result in a drop in salary that I can't really make work at the moment.
    I can't change the company from within, because no matter how much they talk about "values", they are all the same really. In fact, the MORE a company talks about value, the worse it behaves.
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux

    So funny you brought that up. My first real career was with a retailer
    within consumer electronics. They were the Nordstrum of electronics if you will. Instead of tile floors, carpet. Very "feel at home" paint colors. We offered every customer a pop or coffee (or bottle of water) when they
    arrived. We really prided ourselves and consistently executed their version
    of "The 10 commandments to customer service." People loved shopping in our stores. We averaged 30,000sqft in size, and carried everything best buy did, but also the high end shops.. We had no intent on selling al ot of $50,000 home theatre systems, however we had a high end movie theatre room set up for people to expeience ... actually had about 4 different type of experience rooms. Most customers came in wanting the $99 speakers. After experiencing
    a $20,000 audio system, then listing to the $99 version, they would typically spend an average of $1500 on at least definitive techology or klipsch
    speakers. I fell in love with the company and the people I worked with, however as we grew, profits were needed to sustain the growth, and slowly but inevitably a lot of the "10 commandments" went away -- the culture collapsed.

    After leaving that company, I started working for Sears as a General Manager.
    I remember them stating over and over again the need to learn things "their way," and about their unique culture of customer service. It pailed in comparison to where I had previously worked. matter of fact, the company was struggling so much that their expectations of a well merchandised store was impossible to maintain. I ran a 120,000sqft store that did 30 million per year. We would have ONE employee "approved" by the corporation to
    merchandise the entire upstairs apparel area, which on it's own was a good 20-40,000 sqft and heavily shopped.

    Moving on to another local company here in Indiana -- rinse and repeat --
    "Must laern our culture," "must learn what we do and how we do it," "must
    learn our systems," etc... It was ALL the same, but in this case, their
    culture was a very agressive sales approach like old school car dealerships. Horrible experience, despite the increase in pay.

    My final stop was Best Buy. Now this company really wanted me to drink some funky Koolaid -- build relationships, employee moral committies, etc.... It
    was tailored to 18 years olds with sensitive personalities that constantly needed pats on the back, and rewarded for simply doing their job. This is when my mom passed and I was able to break free of (circling back to what you're saying ...) corporations.

    I think, as I babbled, to your point .. what I found in common with ALL of them, is that each felt their culture was unique. Despite each being within the same industry and most using similar systems .. they each felt that they were so remarkably different that NONE of them were open to a fresh set of
    eyes who could possibly positivly impact their business. And most important, I've found that the cliche' "that we are no longer valued employees, just another disposable number," or "cog within a wheel," were all so true and
    often subtle messages sent to leaders as means of motivation to drive
    corporate goals.

    This is why I prefer small businesses, or interacting with those on BBS's,
    that still believe in doing great things, and the value of people helping
    them acheive it. Like a small business with the belief they can create a
    truly unique retail store, beit true or not that they will succeed, the
    energy and passion behind the hard work to do so is the only type of company I'd work for again -- otherwords, I'll just start my own again. More and
    more people seem to appreciate local and small businesses these days at least where I live. And I guess, how it relates to BBS's, I prefer to discuss "how to gain users" then to think of them as nothing more than "museums" and "archives in history"

    If you like the people you work with, and the work is fun, I imagine its
    worth staying as in my eperience, that experience is usually not recreated again when a job change is made within the same field. Most of the time.
    Not from a corporate culture prospective.

    Now .. .the owning a business thing has significant advantages, mostly flexibility of time and more time working from home in the presence of
    family. However, I learned over the last 7 years, it takes A LOT of business to make a decent personal income, as a result of the business expenses that become necessarry to meet demand if successful in the communities eye.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (1:227/702)
  • From Dennis Katsonis@3:712/620 to Doug Cooper on Sun May 31 20:12:00 2020
    Doug Cooper wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-

    I wish I could do the same too. I could change careers, but that would result in a drop in salary that I can't really make work at the moment.
    I can't change the company from within, because no matter how much they talk about "values", they are all the same really. In fact, the MORE a company talks about value, the worse it behaves.
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux

    So funny you brought that up. My first real career was with a retailer within consumer electronics. They were the Nordstrum of electronics if you will. Instead of tile floors, carpet. Very "feel at home" paint colors. We offered every customer a pop or coffee (or bottle of water) when they arrived. We really prided ourselves and consistently
    executed their version of "The 10 commandments to customer service." People loved shopping in our stores. We averaged 30,000sqft in size,
    and carried everything best buy did, but also the high end shops.. We
    had no intent on selling al ot of $50,000 home theatre systems, however
    we had a high end movie theatre room set up for people to expeience ... actually had about 4 different type of experience rooms. Most
    customers came in wanting the $99 speakers. After experiencing a
    $20,000 audio system, then listing to the $99 version, they would typically spend an average of $1500 on at least definitive techology or klipsch speakers. I fell in love with the company and the people I
    worked with, however as we grew, profits were needed to sustain the growth, and slowly but inevitably a lot of the "10 commandments" went
    away -- the culture collapsed.

    After leaving that company, I started working for Sears as a General Manager. I remember them stating over and over again the need to learn things "their way," and about their unique culture of customer service.
    It pailed in comparison to where I had previously worked. matter of fact, the company was struggling so much that their expectations of a
    well merchandised store was impossible to maintain. I ran a
    120,000sqft store that did 30 million per year. We would have ONE employee "approved" by the corporation to merchandise the entire
    upstairs apparel area, which on it's own was a good 20-40,000 sqft and heavily shopped.

    Moving on to another local company here in Indiana -- rinse and repeat
    -- "Must laern our culture," "must learn what we do and how we do it," "must learn our systems," etc... It was ALL the same, but in this case, their culture was a very agressive sales approach like old school car dealerships. Horrible experience, despite the increase in pay.

    My final stop was Best Buy. Now this company really wanted me to drink some funky Koolaid -- build relationships, employee moral committies, etc.... It was tailored to 18 years olds with sensitive personalities
    that constantly needed pats on the back, and rewarded for simply doing their job. This is when my mom passed and I was able to break free of (circling back to what you're saying ...) corporations.

    I think, as I babbled, to your point .. what I found in common with ALL
    of them, is that each felt their culture was unique. Despite each
    being within the same industry and most using similar systems .. they
    each felt that they were so remarkably different that NONE of them were open to a fresh set of eyes who could possibly positivly impact their business. And most important, I've found that the cliche' "that we are
    no longer valued employees, just another disposable number," or "cog within a wheel," were all so true and often subtle messages sent to leaders as means of motivation to drive corporate goals.

    This is why I prefer small businesses, or interacting with those on
    BBS's, that still believe in doing great things, and the value of
    people helping them acheive it. Like a small business with the belief they can create a truly unique retail store, beit true or not that they will succeed, the energy and passion behind the hard work to do so is
    the only type of company I'd work for again -- otherwords, I'll just
    start my own again. More and more people seem to appreciate local and small businesses these days at least where I live. And I guess, how it relates to BBS's, I prefer to discuss "how to gain users" then to think
    of them as nothing more than "museums" and "archives in history"

    If you like the people you work with, and the work is fun, I imagine
    its worth staying as in my eperience, that experience is usually not recreated again when a job change is made within the same field. Most
    of the time. Not from a corporate culture prospective.

    Now .. .the owning a business thing has significant advantages, mostly flexibility of time and more time working from home in the presence of family. However, I learned over the last 7 years, it takes A LOT of business to make a decent personal income, as a result of the business expenses that become necessarry to meet demand if successful in the communities eye.

    The company I work for is seeking a temp, and the temp is having to go through three interviews to ensure they fit the "company culture". I think people that go into HR, or offer such services over sell the important of culture, because they don't have much else to offer. They convince companies that it makes or breaks them, but that is not true. I have worked in companies with a bad culture, and it was due to bad managers, NOT who you hire. The best place I worked for was the best simply because I got on well with the people I worked with, and we took it upon ourselves to make the workplace interesting. No programs from HR needed. No need for centrally dictated language guides or any of that rubbish. I really don't think that these attempts by companies to shape a 'culture' have any real effect at all, and certainly, selecting people for 'cultural fit' is just discrimination for no reason.

    They simply don't want to accept the fact that if people get on well, then we don't need this ruling elite to shape our culture with their wisdom, their 'flavour of the day' ideologies and their control.

    ... Dennis Katsonis
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    * Origin: The Dungeon BBS Canberra, Australia. (3:712/620)
  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/16 to Dennisk on Mon Jun 1 18:23:05 2020
    On May 29th 5:01 am Dennisk said...
    It is hard to do, but its good to hear people at least acknowledge it. Often one feels powerless to do the right thing, especially when your job depends on you acting to the contrary. But even speaking up, or just letting others know that there is a conflict is much better than nothing.



    So so true. One thing that I've learned in my advancing age is to compromise. I don't take 'score' or do something in hopes I get something in return. I never really did things for that reason, but I always had a hint of hope in the back of my mind. I do things for others just because if I can, I do. I in no way have a lot. I prolly have less than the average person, but I am happy
    with what I have. I'm blessed. I don't argue, even when I know I'm right. I have had to catch myself. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I DO hope I can help SOMEone

    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.11-beta (linux; x64; 10.16.3)
    * Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS |frontierbbs.net:8888| OH (1:226/16)
  • From Doug Cooper@1:227/702 to Dennis Katsonis on Fri Jun 5 09:12:14 2020
    The company I work for is seeking a temp, and the temp is having to go through three interviews to ensure they fit the "company culture". I think people that go into HR, or offer such services over sell the important of culture, because they don't have much else to offer. They convince companies that it makes or breaks them, but that is not true.
    I have worked in companies with a bad culture, and it was due to bad managers, NOT who you hire. The best place I worked for was the best simply because I got on well with the people I worked with, and we took
    it upon ourselves to make the workplace interesting. No programs from
    HR needed. No need for centrally dictated language guides or any of
    that rubbish. I really don't think that these attempts by companies to shape a 'culture' have any real effect at all, and certainly, selecting people for 'cultural fit' is just discrimination for no reason.


    Whenever I reflect on the change in college culture over the years, and how it's translated into political culture/desired laws and social justice initiatives .. I seem to recall it falling inline with the evolution of HR departments within corporations. My "Conspiracy theory" I like to throw out
    at the dinner table whenever a relative won't shut up about politics is "The cause is human resources." Albeit I'm kidding .. "culture and diversity training" are just fancy words for "Reduce liabity of fines, penalties, and lawsuits." In America, as I'm sure true anywhere, it's cheaper to settle a false claim of wrongful termination (averaging $10,000 per settlement,) then
    it is to go to trial. There are quite a few opportunistic people out there that have created a culture within the workforce that supresses us from being human - from being ourselves - without fear of being fired and or wrongly accused of having offended another. Human Resources used to simply be recruiting, payroll, and seperate department managers who dealt with employee complaints. Whatever year most companies began consolidating it into a singular department, is the time since, I have not enjoyed working for corporations. My "Conspiracy theory" is that it's also cheaper for corporations to pay off politicians to pursue agendas that reduce liability
    for said corporations. Therefore the push for education and law to practice supression of our rights to freedom of speech. Not to mention the confusion corporations create -- what you can't say at work without being fired for,
    you freely can outside of work -- is not nearly as definitive of a line as it once was. With social media these days, one who is freely expressing their legal rights, can lose their job for what they posted on their off time, or
    not aquire a job to begin with. America is so divided left versus right,
    most corporations, the media, and politicians, leaning left, pampering to a generation of youth who are overly entitled, that if one does lean more right (like I do,) said invidivuals are at a disadvantage in aquiring a job and or within the work force. I hope a day exists the government realizes this invasive right to privacy, and discrimiation corporations are emposing, and draws fine line relations restricting companies from snooping facebook accounts.

    I'm somewhat off topic, however my point I guess, is that I'm finding a lot
    of people attempting to start their own businesses as a result of the
    "culture" that these companies are so "proud of."

    I love the word rubbish ... we don't use that often in the states! So true,
    so true ... I remember when HR started creating sexual harrasment videos. It was always some old white guy making ridiculous passes at a college aged
    girl. The actors and examples were ubsurd. 99% of those who sign up to work for an organization do so with the positive intent to be a good employee, to
    do be ethical, and to strive to do our best daily. I don't know ANYONE who goes into work every day striving to do a bad job, or use words to intentionally offend someone, etc.. the 1% who do have made working for corporations borderline hostile. I can't imagine the verbage "rubbish"
    guides being trained on and written into handbooks in 2020 with the evolution of gender identification, pronoun usage, and sexuality identification. Not
    to mention this ridiculous personality profile people are taking and adding theirs to profiles and or resumes. Exactly how much does a company need to know about my personal life prior to hiring me?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (1:227/702)
  • From Dennisk@3:633/416 to Doug Cooper on Sat Jun 6 12:10:00 2020
    Whenever I reflect on the change in college culture over the years, and how it's translated into political culture/desired laws and social
    justice initiatives .. I seem to recall it falling inline with the evolution of HR departments within corporations. My "Conspiracy
    theory" I like to throw out at the dinner table whenever a relative
    won't shut up about politics is "The cause is human resources." Albeit I'm kidding .. "culture and diversity training" are just fancy words
    for "Reduce liabity of fines, penalties, and lawsuits." In America, as I'm sure true anywhere, it's cheaper to settle a false claim of
    wrongful termination (averaging $10,000 per settlement,) then it is to
    go to trial. There are quite a few opportunistic people out there that have created a culture within the workforce that supresses us from
    being human - from being ourselves - without fear of being fired and or wrongly accused of having offended another. Human Resources used to simply be recruiting, payroll, and seperate department managers who
    dealt with employee complaints. Whatever year most companies began consolidating it into a singular department, is the time since, I have
    not enjoyed working for corporations. My "Conspiracy theory" is that it's also cheaper for corporations to pay off politicians to pursue agendas that reduce liability for said corporations. Therefore the
    push for education and law to practice supression of our rights to
    freedom of speech. Not to mention the confusion corporations create -- what you can't say at work without being fired for, you freely can
    outside of work -- is not nearly as definitive of a line as it once
    was. With social media these days, one who is freely expressing their legal rights, can lose their job for what they posted on their off
    time, or not aquire a job to begin with. America is so divided left versus right, most corporations, the media, and politicians, leaning
    left, pampering to a generation of youth who are overly entitled, that
    if one does lean more right (like I do,) said invidivuals are at a disadvantage in aquiring a job and or within the work force. I hope a
    day exists the government realizes this invasive right to privacy, and discrimiation corporations are emposing, and draws fine line relations restricting companies from snooping facebook accounts.

    I'm somewhat off topic, however my point I guess, is that I'm finding a lot of people attempting to start their own businesses as a result of
    the "culture" that these companies are so "proud of."

    I love the word rubbish ... we don't use that often in the states! So true, so true ... I remember when HR started creating sexual harrasment videos. It was always some old white guy making ridiculous passes at a college aged girl. The actors and examples were ubsurd. 99% of those
    who sign up to work for an organization do so with the positive intent
    to be a good employee, to do be ethical, and to strive to do our best daily. I don't know ANYONE who goes into work every day striving to do
    a bad job, or use words to intentionally offend someone, etc.. the 1%
    who do have made working for corporations borderline hostile. I can't imagine the verbage "rubbish" guides being trained on and written into handbooks in 2020 with the evolution of gender identification, pronoun usage, and sexuality identification. Not to mention this ridiculous personality profile people are taking and adding theirs to profiles and
    or resumes. Exactly how much does a company need to know about my personal life prior to hiring me?

    Companies tend to just take the most precautionary course of action. Better to just fall in line, than risk bad press. I work for a "brand", and there is the constant fear of bad press. All it takes, is some "journalist" taking a tweet or two and constructing a news story out of it. Even though those stories don't really have any effect, the company doesn't want to deal with it. They don't want to manage that potential risk. The modern way is precaution at all cost, not risk managment.

    So yes, they see it better to just blindly accept the immoral and discriminatory "diversity" policy, or just fire the performing employee who said something on Twitter that upset four other people on Twitter. The irony is, these companies claim they have principles, but in reality, they bend the knee without objection at all and will act unprincipled to avoid what they consider bad press. Your "Conspiracy Theory" has merit.

    Human Resources is a large part of this culture too. In part, they want the brand to appeal to others, in part, they want to personally engage in making the world a better place, and then taking advantage of thier power over others to do so. HR is a rort if you ask me. They are paid for these complex programs which I believe make little to no difference. The correlation between strong HR departments and company performance is due to wealth companies affording complex HR programs, not complex HR programs resulting in performance. The worst thing is, they weigh in on social issues (such as these riots), without ANY political, historical or philosophical understand of what they are commenting in. Imagine 14 year old school children taking control of companies, this is our world now.

    Saagar Enjeti from The Hill (A YouTube channel I recommend) made a point that I've mused over for a while too. In companies pushing this type of politics, they can divert attention from their own inequities and their own structural problems. Why would big companies support their riots, he mused. In making the social problems about racism, sexism and other boogeymen from the past, people will focus on old ideas, instead of looking at how modern wealth inequality, the GFC, the bailouts etc, have disadvantaged people, and disadvantaged Blacks. It draws people attention towards "historical racism", allowing people perpetuating modern injustices to get away with it. Women are far, far more disadvantaged in Australia due to high house prices and stagnating wages than they are some suppose 'pay gap', but these aren't problems the ruling elite want thought about. To be honest, those in less professional positions, understand this better than the more educated ones.

    I can say that companies which have a strong "culture" are stifling, and the staff retention rate is not that great. It's all a lie. They create a narrative to explain away their failure, their poor performance. You can't even say that a system that doesn't work could be improved, because that is 'negative'. If the company was doing great as a result, massive bonuses, pay rises, job security, then yeah, maybe I could admit there is some merit. But I have none of that.

    ... Dennis Katsonis
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    * Origin: Mind's Eye BBS - mindseye.ddns.net - Australia (3:633/416)
  • From Charles Stephenson@1:226/17 to Dennisk on Wed Jun 10 01:22:20 2020
    Re: Re: Dad'ism
    By: Dennisk to Charles Stephenson on Fri May 29 2020 06:39 pm

    It is hard to do, but its good to hear people at least acknowledge it. Often one feels powerless to do the right thing, especially when your job depends on you acting to the contrary. But even speaking up, or just letting others know that there is a conflict is much better than nothing.

    Well said!

    Now if we could get the masses to think like this, we'd have a lot less problems and conflicts.

    Thank you
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier ][ BBS [frontierbbs.net:23] - OH (1:226/17)
  • From Chad Adams@1:19/37 to Charles Stephenson on Wed Sep 23 21:49:48 2020
    Those days will be here faster than you think, then you'll miss THESE days! I've shed a few 'dad tears' thinking about the diaper days. I used





    I know what you mean!


    Sincerely,
    -Nugax
    --=TheByteXchange BBS=--

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/12 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The ByteXchange BBS | bbs.thebytexchange.com (1:19/37)