Hello There,
I know this is early to ask these fundamental questions since this echo is essentially just getting re-started.
But what are the pros/good or con/bad aspects of gun control?
Could gun control work and if so to what degree?
Can gun control laws really keep guns out of the hands if criminal?
Would limiting gun ownership help to make for a safer society?
Do mass shootings differ from other types of gun violence?
What could be done to reduce gun violence?
Would fewer guns result in less gun violence?
Would gun control result in fewer guns being used and by who?
To what extent are guns used in self-defense?
Won't criminals kill with other weapons if they don't have guns?
Are any White House proposals likely to be effective?
How does the U.S. compare to other countries on gun control?
What correlation is there between gun ownership and violent crimes?
These just a few questions that come to mind.
Thoughts anyone????
Yes, we still have gun violence. But we have gun control. And
we have less gun violence than our southern neighbours.
It's unfortunate that Americans cling on to a few words
written into their constitution about the right to bear arms.
Thankfully, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn't have
such silly language.
Thoughts anyone????
One word. Canada.
Yes, we still have gun violence. But we have gun control. And we have less gun violence than our southern neighbours.
It's unfortunate that Americans cling on to a few words written into their constitution about the right to bear arms.
Thankfully, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn't have such silly language.
Yes Ian, but Canada also has about one tenth the population of the US. I don't think it is so much Gun Control as it is the mindset of the
people.
Gun control isn't going to keep a gun out of the hands of those
that want to use a gun.
It's unfortunate that Americans cling on to a few words written into the constitution about the right to bear arms.
Important words to the average American Ian. From day one our freedoms have been important. And many Americans resist having those freedoms
taken away or limited. Is gun control necessary in the US? Yes, I think
it IS a good thing. There are people that shouldn't be allowed to
legally own or possess a gun. Such as Felons, Mentally, or Emotionally unstable people. Proof of proper gun usage should be and is currently required. That having been said someone that wants to use a gun to
commit a crime isn't interested in any existing gun laws. I see guns as
a thing. How it is used is determined by the person. If gun sales were banned here Ian. Those that still wanted a gun could easily get one.
Laws against something don't keep people from doing that thing if the desire is great enough. Again, change the mindset of the person and the existence of guns becomes irrelevant. But, I also realize that that is also the hardest thing to accomplish.
Thankfully, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn't have such silly language.
Silly is a matter of perspective Ian. What Canadian freedom would you fight to keep or resist being taken away Ian?
Yes Ian, but Canada also has about one tenth the population of the US. I don't think it is so much Gun Control as it is the mindset of the
people. Gun control isn't going to keep a gun out of the hands of those that want to use a gun.
On 06/12/16, Jeff Smith said the following...
Yes Ian, but Canada also has about one tenth the population of the US. I
don't think it is so much Gun Control as it is the mindset of the
people. Gun control isn't going to keep a gun out of the hands of those
that want to use a gun.
It should be noted that we don't just have more gun crime, we have more crime PERIOD. I've been to Canada and I feel much safer on Canadian cities than in American cities.
The culture there is way different, people carry themselves differently. You don't have cars driving by with loud bass booming obscenities like you do here in America. And your youth have much more manners than ours.
I blame America's crime problem on the fact that America has stopped parenting our kids. That's the first thing I notice when I travel is how much better kids behave in foreign countries. There is a very big difference!
So.... Who is or isn't for gun control and why?
Will gun control lower crime?
If gun ownership is restricted will it make society safer?
Do you think gun ownership should be a right?
Gun control means only criminals and cops will have guns.
No. Only law abiding people obey laws. Criminals don't.
Will gun control lower crime?
no. Pretty well every mass shooting in the US has occurred in `gun-free zones'!
It already IS a `right'. The Second amendment is the ONLY `license' a citizen needs to "Keep and Bear Arms". With the exception of making it
a crime for convicted criminals to have firearms, all other `gun laws'
are un-Constitutional.
We should never for an instant forget, that the one and only reason anybody has for taking your gun away is to make you weaker and unable
to resist the will of others, so they can do unto you what they
choose that you wouldn't allow them to do if you were able to defend yourself. This goes for burglars, muggers, and other criminals, and
more so for bureaucrats, and politicians.
Banning guns for responsible gun owners will do little to prevent criminally minded individuals from carrying out violent acts. I am a believer that guns by themselves do not kill or shoot anyone. It takes
a person to do the shooting and killing.
18 Apr 17 01:35, you wrote to all:
We should never for an instant forget, that the one and only reason
anybody has for taking your gun away is to make you weaker and unable
to resist the will of others, so they can do unto you what they
choose that you wouldn't allow them to do if you were able to defend
yourself. This goes for burglars, muggers, and other criminals, and
more so for bureaucrats, and politicians.
Banning guns for responsible gun owners will do little to prevent
criminally minded individuals from carrying out violent acts. I am a
believer that guns by themselves do not kill or shoot anyone. It takes
a person to do the shooting and killing.
Do you have any stories to share (or know someone) about a situation
where owning a gun saved you or your family?
I am asking this because I live in Brazil, and here the laws concerning
the possession of firearms are extremely restrictive, to the extent that is
almost impossible to the average person to own a gun, and it's 100% impossible
to carry a gun outside the home without being a police officer.
Nevertheless, the crime rate has reached an all-time high here. It's so
high that if you leave your home for a walk in the block the chances of someon robbing you at gunpoint are like 3 into 10.
That being said, what would be the value of having a gun in such an environment? The attacker has always the element of surprise, and if they find > out that you have a gun, you won't come back home alive to tell a story...
Do you have any stories to share (or know someone) about a situation
where owning a gun saved you or your family?
Yes, I have a friend who has several long guns as well as several handguns. He was home when at about 11:00 pm a couple guys broke into
his house. In the house were him, his wife, and their two kids.
Hearing noises he got up and went to investigate carrying his 9m. He confronted the intruders aiming his gun at them. He said that they
broke several things in trying to leave the house. He also told me
that he would have only fired if it was the only option left to
protect himself or his family.
I remember being in my car driving with my girlfriend some years ago
in Minneapolis, MN. A 20ish year old guy asked if he could get a
ride. I decided to give him a lift against the opinion of my
girlfriend (Based on the look she gave me). <g> About 5-10 minutes
later he pulled a knife and stuck it to my neck. He was sitting in
the back seat behind me. He asked for my money. I at the time was not carrying any weapon. I can't tell you how helpless I felt. Needless to
say I gave him the $45 that I had on me.
Would I have felt different if he had had a gun? Not really. IMHO, if people have a criminal intent to rob or attack. They will acquire and
use what ever they think they need. Be it a knife, club, or gun. They
are not likely to care if having, carrying, or using a gun is
illegal. Again IMHO gun laws preventing people from owning or carrying
a gun does little if anything to keep the gun out of the hands of the criminals.
I realize that some from other countries might say that "We don't have that problem here". And that might be somewhat true. But then again we
are not talking about life in other countries. I am not inferring
that we here do things better or worse than elsewhere. Guns here have
been major part of US history. A large percentage of gun owners here
grew up in homes that had guns. Many homes that have guns have
multiple guns in the home. In talking to gun owners over the years.
They say that the primary reason for having a gun is protection of
their home and family with hunting and sport shooting being
considerably less important. Many have stated that they couldn't see themselves without owning or carrying a gun.
I am asking this because I live in Brazil, and here the laws
concerning the possession of firearms are extremely restrictive, to
the extent that is almost impossible to the average person to own a
gun, and it's 100% impossible to carry a gun outside the home
without being a police officer.
Do the gun ownership restrictions there keep someone from getting a
gun if they decide to use one?
Nevertheless, the crime rate has reached an all-time high here. It's
so high that if you leave your home for a walk in the block the
chances of someon robbing you at gunpoint are like 3 into 10.
I guess you have just answered my last question. My attitude is that
if gun laws prevent private ownership and/or possession of guns. Then
the only people that will carry guns are the criminals. With the
exception of the police of course. Am I in favor of stricter gun laws?
Yes I am. I think that people should have the right to own and carry a gun. Provided that they are mentally capable of being properly
responsible for it's safe operation and use. Also known criminals
should be prevented from ownership or possession. But that is really
an unenforceable restriction. I also think that gun ownership and possession should require proper and verified gun safety training. I
help provide gun safety training at several local locations. Training
that the state currently requires. The majority of the students are children ranging in ages from 9 to 20 years old. It is important that
a society that has, and owns gun knows how to safely use, store, and operate a firearm. And to properly respect it.
That being said, what would be the value of having a gun in such an
environment? The attacker has always the element of surprise, and if
they find > out that you have a gun, you won't come back home alive
to tell a story...
Hypothetically, if you were intent on burglarizing a home. And if you
were reasonably certain that that household had a gun inside. Would
you be less inclined to approach that home?
26 Jul 17 23:58, you wrote to me:
I remember being in my car driving with my girlfriend some years ago
in Minneapolis, MN. A 20ish year old guy asked if he could get a
ride. I decided to give him a lift against the opinion of my
girlfriend (Based on the look she gave me). <g> About 5-10 minutes
later he pulled a knife and stuck it to my neck. He was sitting in
the back seat behind me. He asked for my money. I at the time was not
carrying any weapon. I can't tell you how helpless I felt. Needless to
say I gave him the $45 that I had on me.
But, at the time, if you had a gun with you, how could you defend
yourself? He had your back, with a knife stuck to your neck.
Again IMHO gun laws preventing people from owning or carrying
a gun does little if anything to keep the gun out of the hands of the
criminals.
I couldn't agree with you more. I live in Brazil, and here, to own a
gun, you need to undergo a Kafkianesque bureaucracy that would raise a few eyebrows of communist-time Russians.
Nevertheless, the drug dealers and all sorts of bad guys have access to the state of the art on weaponry.
I realize that some from other countries might say that "We don't have
that problem here". And that might be somewhat true. But then again we
are not talking about life in other countries. I am not inferring
that we here do things better or worse than elsewhere.
But I tell you... We do have this problem here. I can remember of two
recent school shootings: One was on 2013, when a crazy guy bought a .38 Specia
handgun from a friend for 20 USD and went to his old high school. He killed around 10 people before a police officer shot him.
My father is a shooting sportsman and I've grown with weapons all
around, I learned the responsability that carrying a gun brings with you.
And also I can tell you that, in the city of Rio alone, from January
until today, 121 police officers were killed here.
[...]Do the gun ownership restrictions there keep someone from getting a
gun if they decide to use one?
There's the right for self-defense, but it will be a long court battle.
Even if I have a gun at home to protect my family, if someone breaks into
my house and I eventually shoot and kill the guy, I'll be in deep trouble
I help provide gun safety training at several local locations. Training
that the state currently requires. The majority of the students are
children ranging in ages from 9 to 20 years old. It is important that
a society that has, and owns gun knows how to safely use, store, and
operate a firearm. And to properly respect it.
You are absolutely right. My problem is that my society haven't evolved
to such a level, and I believe that, if the gun laws here would be softer, we would be back into the Old West times. But that's a Brazilian issue.
But, at the time, if you had a gun with you, how could you defend
yourself? He had your back, with a knife stuck to your neck.
If I had been carrying a handgun. Would I have used it to defend my girlfriend and/or myself? That depends on the situation. Having a gun doesn't and shouldn't mean IMHO that it should and has to be used. I
look at use of a handgun as a last resort action. Would I use a
handgun to retain the $45 that I had? No I would not. Would I have
used a handgun to prevent the immanent death of either my girlfriend
or myself? Yes I would have.
I couldn't agree with you more. I live in Brazil, and here, to own a
gun, you need to undergo a Kafkianesque bureaucracy that would raise
a few eyebrows of communist-time Russians.
There are nightmarish bureaucracies here also. It makes me wonder sometimes how the government can actually get a task actually done.
But that's a topic to be discussed elsewhere.
Nevertheless, the drug dealers and all sorts of bad guys have access
to the state of the art on weaponry.
Sadly, that is all too true. Criminals never seem to have trouble acquiring weapons of their choice. Regardless of what currently in
place gun laws there may be.I am not of the mind that we should let things become a "My gun's bigger than yours" mentality.
As you may be aware we had a recent shooting event here that killed
quite a few people and injured many others. It seems that modified automatic weapons were used to comit the crime. This event aparently executed by a man with no previous criminal history. He simply used
his wealth to buy and modify what weapons he thought necessary to
carry out his deadly deeds.
We could easily exchange a number of horror stories involving mass
deaths. The point as I see it is would banning gun ownership prevent
such events from happening in the future?
In checking I see about 39 law enfocement officers were killed in the
line of duty by gunfire in the last year nationwide.
Even if I have a gun at home to protect my family, if someone breaks
into my house and I eventually shoot and kill the guy, I'll be in
deep trouble
Here the legal process is usually considerably quicker. As people are
able to act in self defense if necessary. And only use deadly force as
a last resort.
Force used in self defense that is likely to cause death or great
bodily harm is justified only if a person reasonably thinks that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.
Here there is also a Stand-Your-Ground law (sometimes called "line in
the sand"
or "no duty to retreat" law). It is a justification in a criminal
case, whereby
a defendant can "stand their ground" and use force without retreating,
in order
to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or
perceived threats.
An example is where there is no duty to retreat from any place where
they have a lawful right to be, and that they may use any level of
force if they reasonably believe the threat rises to the level of
being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or
death. One case describes "the 'stand your ground' law... a person has
a right to expect absolute safety in a place they have a right to be,
and may use deadly force to repel an unlawful intruder.
There is the possible position that the criminally minded people there
are comfortable in the feeling that they can comit their crimes
without the fear of their victums being able to effectively defend themselves.
Yes, and despite all efforts and regulations, I simply can't
think of a way to prevent that. There could be some kind of
punishment for adapting a firearm to full auto setting, but
how would you enforce such a thing? That's just crazy.
punishment for adapting a firearm to full auto setting,
but
how would you enforce such a thing? That's just crazy.
By the time you've discovered that someone has made this modification,
it is most likely already too late.
| Sysop: | Nelgin |
|---|---|
| Location: | Plano, TX |
| Users: | 577 |
| Nodes: | 10 (1 / 9) |
| Uptime: | 57:05:21 |
| Calls: | 9,294 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 16,016 |
| Messages: | 1,046,599 |