• NANOG 73

    From Markus Reschke@2:240/1661 to All on Fri Jul 27 18:43:50 2018
    Hi!

    From the last NANOG conference:

    T-Mobile's journey to IPv6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGbxCKAqNUE

    ciao,
    Markus

    ---
    * Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555.1 to Markus Reschke on Sun Jul 29 00:27:47 2018
    Hello Markus,

    On Friday July 27 2018 18:43, you wrote to All:

    T-Mobile's journey to IPv6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGbxCKAqNUE

    Interesting. Thanks for the link.


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: Michiel's laptop (2:280/5555.1)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555.1 to Markus Reschke on Mon Jul 30 01:15:37 2018
    Hello Markus,

    Sunday July 29 2018 00:27, I wrote to you:

    T-Mobile's journey to IPv6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGbxCKAqNUE

    Interesting. Thanks for the link.

    What I find remarkable is that T-Mobile US is working towards an IPv6 only mobile network by switching off IPv4 and accomodating "legacy" with transition mechanisms. While here in my part of the world they are still IPv4 only. Even their website is IPv4...


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: Michiel's laptop (2:280/5555.1)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Jul 30 02:04:14 2018
    MvdV> switching off IPv4 and accomodating "legacy" with transition mechanisms.

    Smart. That way it's easier for them to prevent their customers from accessing media out of their control. At least for quite some years ahead -- the US ISPs seem to be even slower to go IPv6 than the European ones. :(



    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Mon Jul 30 10:38:27 2018
    Hello Bj”rn,

    On Monday July 30 2018 02:04, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> switching off IPv4 and accomodating "legacy" with transition
    MvdV>> mechanisms.

    Smart. That way it's easier for them to prevent their customers
    from accessing media out of their control. At least for quite some
    years ahead -- the US ISPs seem to be even slower to go IPv6 than the European ones. :(

    I am not sure that criticism is justified. On both accounts.

    These statistics: http://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/28/

    . .. do not support your claim that the ISPs in the US are slower with IPv6 than those in Europe. On the contrary I'd say. Here the big ones are still dragging their feet while the big ones across the pond, especially the mobiles are well on their way.

    Also all the big content providers are reacheable via IPv6. So how does one control the customers - that all have IPv6 - by doing "tricks" with their IPv4 access?

    Dropping IPv4 and going IPv6 only makes sense. That it involves some "tricks" to accomodate "legacy", tricks that may have some negative side effects, should be an incentive for the conservatives to get moving.


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Markus Reschke@2:240/1661 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Jul 30 18:11:54 2018
    Hi Michiel!

    Jul 30 01:15 2018, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

    MvdV> What I find remarkable is that T-Mobile US is working towards an
    MvdV> IPv6 only mobile network by switching off IPv4 and accomodating
    MvdV> "legacy" with transition mechanisms. While here in my part of the
    MvdV> world they are still IPv4 only. Even their website is IPv4...

    I assume they didn't get sufficient IPv4 address space from ARIN for the US market. So they were forced to go for IPv6.

    ciao,
    Markus

    ---
    * Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Jul 30 22:09:05 2018
    MvdV> Also all the big content providers are reacheable via IPv6.

    Have you checked?

    At least the home pages of Netflix and HBO are IPv4 only. Unfortunately I have no tool on my SmartTV to check what protocol it's using when streaming programs to it.



    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Markus Reschke on Mon Jul 30 22:37:41 2018
    Hello Markus,

    On Monday July 30 2018 18:11, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> What I find remarkable is that T-Mobile US is working towards
    MvdV>> an IPv6 only mobile network by switching off IPv4 and
    MvdV>> accomodating "legacy" with transition mechanisms. While here in
    MvdV>> my part of the world they are still IPv4 only. Even their
    MvdV>> website is IPv4...

    I assume they didn't get sufficient IPv4 address space from ARIN for
    the US market. So they were forced to go for IPv6.

    Arin depleted ger IPv4 stock in Sept 2015, so it is a reasonable assumption that T-mobile US can't get ant more IPv4 address space. But the the same would apply to RIPE and the European obile providers. Ripe exhausted her IPv4 space Sept 2012. But here (Netherlands) none of the mobile providers offer IPv6 yet. They offer IPv4 CGNAT though... :-(


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Mon Jul 30 22:49:36 2018
    Hello Bj”rn,

    On Monday July 30 2018 22:09, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Also all the big content providers are reacheable via IPv6.

    Have you checked?

    Not all of them of course. Google, Youtube and Wikipedia have IPv6.

    At least the home pages of Netflix and HBO are IPv4 only.

    netflix.com is IPv6. hbo.com is IPv4.

    Unfortunately I have no tool on my SmartTV to check what protocol it's using when streaming programs to it.

    I have no accounts with them and have no intention of getting one, so I can't say either...


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Jul 30 23:17:35 2018
    MvdV> netflix.com is IPv6.

    Not from my horizon, I get IPv4 only report from my IPvFoo addition to Chromium. YMMV of course, it would be more interesting to know what the result from the US horizon might be.

    But never mind. Just saying...


    ..

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Jul 30 23:25:50 2018
    MvdV> I have no accounts with them and have no intention of getting one, so I
    MvdV> can't say either...

    Come to think about it, I remember that you are a fan of bicycle races. Isn't there something big going on in France related to that ATM?

    So how do you get your daily doses of that sports event? Do you get it for free?




    ..

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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Björn Felten on Mon Jul 30 14:29:34 2018
    Re: IPv6 streaming services
    By: Bj”rn Felten to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Jul 30 2018 11:17 pm

    Not from my horizon, I get IPv4 only report from my IPvFoo addition to Chromium. YMMV of course, it would be more interesting to know what the result from the US horizon might be.

    This is the output of "host netflix.com" here in my part of the world.

    netflix.com has address 52.37.219.6
    netflix.com has address 54.149.101.155
    netflix.com has address 52.33.166.102
    netflix.com has address 35.166.68.183
    netflix.com has address 52.37.77.112
    netflix.com has address 52.37.69.124
    netflix.com has address 52.41.20.47
    netflix.com has address 50.112.213.184
    netflix.com has IPv6 address 2620:108:700f::3647:6f22
    netflix.com has IPv6 address 2620:108:700f::3695:659b
    netflix.com has IPv6 address 2620:108:700f::23a0:71e
    netflix.com has IPv6 address 2620:108:700f::36d5:e8ba
    netflix.com has IPv6 address 2620:108:700f::22d1:b966
    netflix.com has IPv6 address 2620:108:700f::22d5:9774
    netflix.com has IPv6 address 2620:108:700f::23a0:707c
    netflix.com has IPv6 address 2620:108:700f::36d5:b64a

    Ttyl :-),
    Al


    ... Is man one of God's blunders or is god one of Man's blunders?
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    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555.1 to Björn Felten on Tue Jul 31 00:46:24 2018
    Hello Bj”rn,

    On Monday July 30 2018 23:17, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> netflix.com is IPv6.

    Not from my horizon, I get IPv4 only report from my IPvFoo addition
    to Chromium.

    It shows an IPv6 connection with IPvfox on my IP machine and Sixornot on my win7 laptop.

    YMMV of course, it would be more interesting to know what
    the result from the US horizon might be.

    Indeed.

    But never mind. Just saying...

    Maybe I should not have been as definite as I was. Perhaps I should have said "most of the big content providers" instead of "all".

    Having said that... About a decade ago I decided to not buy any new network equipment not supporting IPv6. Maybe we should start voting with our wallet when it comes to content as well.

    "hey mr(s) content provider, if you want me to pay for your services, you had better offer them via IPv6, or else I will spend my money elsewhere."

    I once cancelled an account with a DNS provider for not making progress with IPv6...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Michiel's laptop (2:280/5555.1)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555.1 to Björn Felten on Tue Jul 31 00:59:19 2018
    Hello Bj”rn,

    On Monday July 30 2018 23:25, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> I have no accounts with them and have no intention of getting
    MvdV>> one, so I can't say either...

    Come to think about it, I remember that you are a fan of bicycle
    races. Isn't there something big going on in France related to that
    ATM?

    Tour de France finished yesterday. Two Dutch riders in the top ten.

    So how do you get your daily doses of that sports event?

    Mostly from the Dutch public TV broadcast service "NOS".

    Do you get it for free?

    Yes, it is free. Or more precise, the Dutch tax payer pays for it. nos.nl is IPv6.



    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Michiel's laptop (2:280/5555.1)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Markus Reschke on Tue Jul 31 10:16:14 2018
    Hello Markus!

    30 Jul 2018 18:11, Markus Reschke wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    I assume they didn't get sufficient IPv4 address space from ARIN for
    the US market. So they were forced to go for IPv6.

    alternative solutions get more used when real problems is to high to solve :)

    but thumps up to get ipv6 only clients

    possible if there would be a problem when ipv10 commens to late movers ?


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.17.11-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tue Jul 31 10:19:08 2018
    Hello Björn!

    30 Jul 2018 22:09, Björn Felten wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    At least the home pages of Netflix and HBO are IPv4 only.
    Unfortunately I have no tool on my SmartTV to check what protocol it's using when streaming programs to it.

    search google about PCAP android, or USB developper tools

    i wont tell how to turn on developper mode on android, as long none tell me how to turn it off :)

    for geeks:

    when i did have squid transperant proxy, with firewall force ALL client ips on lan iprange to use squid it would not need any client setup to use proxy, that is really simple in linux to make that, same can be done on windows routers, if it cant get a better router


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.17.11-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Markus Reschke on Thu Aug 2 14:09:12 2018
    Hello Markus,

    Monday July 30 2018 22:37, I wrote to you:

    I assume they didn't get sufficient IPv4 address space from ARIN
    for the US market. So they were forced to go for IPv6.

    Arin depleted ger IPv4 stock in Sept 2015, so it is a reasonable assumption that T-mobile US can't get any more IPv4 address space. But
    the the same would apply to RIPE and the European obile providers.
    [...]

    Here are some interesting thoughts about why T-Mobile US went IPv6 and others did not (yet).

    https://preview.tinyurl.com/y7hjyjlf


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Markus Reschke@2:240/1661 to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Aug 2 15:22:04 2018
    Hi Michiel!

    Aug 02 14:09 2018, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

    MvdV> Here are some interesting thoughts about why T-Mobile US went IPv6
    MvdV> and others did not (yet).

    MvdV> https://preview.tinyurl.com/y7hjyjlf

    In case of the large US telcos my take on this is that they are after profit optimization and are trying to invest as less money as possible. Since those telcos have monopolies in most US regions they don't upgrade their networks to make customers happy and provide faster internet access. They will invest only when forced by a competitor. A few days ago New York state voted to throw Charter out of the state for not delivering and lying after their merger with Time Warner. AFAIK this is one of the very rare cases of an US state taking action against a big telco. Back to IPv6. Rolling out IPv6 would require an investment (man power, software, hardware), something the big telcos want to avoid. Their customer service sucks already and a sudden increase of service calls by customers about an IPv6 migration would become a nightmare. As long as it works and makes money there's no reason to spend money for IPv6. And this not just true for the large US telcos but also for tons of other companies.

    ciao,
    Markus

    ---
    * Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Markus Reschke on Sun Aug 5 16:10:35 2018
    Hello Markus,

    On Thursday August 02 2018 15:22, you wrote to me:

    Back to IPv6. Rolling out IPv6 would require an investment (man power, software, hardware), something the big telcos want to avoid.

    Not just the big ones I'd say. And it is not limited to IPv6. Not a new thing either. What we see is that the managers - the ons who decide how the money is spend - don't stay in the seat for the rest of their lives. They move on after a couple of years. As a consequence they are not interested in what happens over five years. They want e return on investment before the end of next year...

    Their customer service sucks already and a sudden increase of service calls by customers about an IPv6 migration would become a nightmare.
    As long as it works and makes money there's no reason to spend money
    for IPv6.

    Indeed. The fact that the longer they wait, the more expensive it will get, does not bother those that make the decisions. Apres nous le deluge...

    And this not just true for the large US telcos but also for tons of
    other companies.

    With a few exceptions. Such as T-Mobile US... :-)


    Cheers, Michiel

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