• IPv6 mandatory in Belarus?

    From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to All on Sat Oct 26 00:24:34 2019
    Hello All,

    Rumour has it that IPv6 willbe mandatory for ISPs by jan 2020. The first country in the world to do so.

    https://preview.tinyurl.com/y6klkfwj

    Ain't that something. ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Oct 26 03:19:02 2019
    Hello Michiel!

    26 Oct 19 00:24, you wrote to all:

    Rumour has it that IPv6 willbe mandatory for ISPs by jan 2020. The
    first country in the world to do so.

    https://preview.tinyurl.com/y6klkfwj

    Ain't that something. ;-)

    It will be interesting seeing if this mandate has any effect on IPv6 adoption rates. After all, they can require the ISP to offer it, but they can hardly force the end users to use it. There will be some that continue to ignore the issue as long as the things they want to do are still working without it.

    Andrew

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Andrew Leary on Sat Oct 26 12:31:24 2019
    Hello Andrew,

    On Saturday October 26 2019 03:19, you wrote to me:

    https://preview.tinyurl.com/y6klkfwj

    Ain't that something. ;-)

    It will be interesting seeing if this mandate has any effect on IPv6 adoption rates. After all, they can require the ISP to offer it, but
    they can hardly force the end users to use it.

    As long as they still offer fully functional IPv4, they can indeed not force the end users to use IPv6. But depending on the local implementation they can discourage end users to not use the default setting of "IPv6 first".

    Here in The Netherlands the default situation is that the customer is issued a modem/router by the ISP. If that modem/router supports IPv6, and all the new ones do, then the user has to go through some effort to switch it off. Most users will have no idea and not meddle with the settings. All modern OSs and all modern applications have supported IPv6 for well over a decade. So John and Ann Median will use IPv6 by default.

    In countries were end users have to buy their own modem/router this will be different. I don't know how this is in Belarus.

    There will be some that continue to ignore the issue as long as the
    things they want to do are still working without it.

    Yes there will always be some that will continue to use stone age IPv4 only stuff for as long as it will still function. To my dissapointment I see a lot of them here in Fidonet. Once - a long time ago - fidonet was driven by pioneers. Sysops were always eager to try something new. But those days are gone. Many sysops these days won't even bother to have a look at IPv6 even if their ISP offers it. :(


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Oct 27 08:52:00 2019
    On 10-26-19 12:31, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Andrew Leary <=-

    Here in The Netherlands the default situation is that the customer is issued a modem/router by the ISP. If that modem/router supports IPv6,
    and all the new ones do, then the user has to go through some effort to switch it off. Most users will have no idea and not meddle with the settings. All modern OSs and all modern applications have supported
    IPv6 for well over a decade. So John and Ann Median will use IPv6 by default.

    Yes that should be the case.

    In countries were end users have to buy their own modem/router this
    will be different. I don't know how this is in Belarus.

    Probably depends on the router. I know in my case, I had to setup a router for a friend who's on the same ISP as me. The ISP supplied the router, but borked the admin password (they do let users configure their routers), and I remember having to explicitly turn on IPv6 after getting it working with the ISP. IOW, Joe Average doing the same operation would most likely end up running IPv4 only.


    ... Stop picking your nose and go to the next message
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  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Andrew Leary on Sat Oct 26 13:30:30 2019
    Good ${greeting_time}, Andrew!

    26 Oct 2019 03:19:02, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    Rumour has it that IPv6 willbe mandatory for ISPs by jan 2020.
    The first country in the world to do so.
    It will be interesting seeing if this mandate has any effect on
    IPv6 adoption rates. After all, they can require the ISP to offer
    it, but they can hardly force the end users to use it. There will
    be some that continue to ignore the issue as long as the things
    they want to do are still working without it.

    Here (both in R45 and R50) is a strong demand for publicly accessible IP addresses (regardless of whether they would be IPv4 or IPv6), mostly for bittorrent (and other P2P) files exchange.

    I guess Russia would be the next :-)


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... :wq!
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Sun Oct 27 10:50:34 2019
    Hello Tony,

    On Sunday October 27 2019 08:52, you wrote to me:

    Here in The Netherlands the default situation is that the
    customer is issued a modem/router by the ISP. If that
    modem/router supports IPv6, and all the new ones do, then the
    user has to go through some effort to switch it off.

    French provider Free has removed the option to disable IPv6 in the last update of their Freebox. Everyone Dual Stack, no exceptions. :)

    Probably depends on the router. I know in my case, I had to setup a router for a friend who's on the same ISP as me. The ISP supplied the router, but borked the admin password (they do let users configure
    their routers), and I remember having to explicitly turn on IPv6 after getting it working with the ISP. IOW, Joe Average doing the same
    operation would most likely end up running IPv4 only.

    Bad. Hopefully they change their mind and correct it in the next update of the router software?

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sun Oct 27 11:52:38 2019
    Hello Alexey,

    On Saturday October 26 2019 13:30, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

    Here (both in R45 and R50) is a strong demand for publicly accessible
    IP addresses (regardless of whether they would be IPv4 or IPv6),
    mostly for bittorrent (and other P2P) files exchange.

    How much IPv4 is left in Russia? Do providers still have some in stock? Are they charging for IPv4? Do new users get DS-Lite or full Dual Stack?

    I guess Russia would be the next :-)

    Yeah ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Oct 27 21:59:00 2019
    On 10-27-19 10:50, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    French provider Free has removed the option to disable IPv6 in the last update of their Freebox. Everyone Dual Stack, no exceptions. :)

    Cool. :)

    Probably depends on the router. I know in my case, I had to setup a router for a friend who's on the same ISP as me. The ISP supplied the router, but borked the admin password (they do let users configure
    their routers), and I remember having to explicitly turn on IPv6 after getting it working with the ISP. IOW, Joe Average doing the same
    operation would most likely end up running IPv4 only.

    Bad. Hopefully they change their mind and correct it in the next update of the router software?

    Time will tell. :)


    ... To err is human. To forgive is against company policy.
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  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Oct 27 18:00:00 2019
    Good ${greeting_time}, Michiel!

    27 Oct 2019 11:52:38, you wrote to me:

    Here (both in R45 and R50) is a strong demand for publicly
    accessible IP addresses (regardless of whether they would be IPv4
    or IPv6), mostly for bittorrent (and other P2P) files exchange.
    MvdV> How much IPv4 is left in Russia? Do providers still have some in
    MvdV> stock?

    They have some, but offer CGNATed addresses (RFC6598 100.64/10) by default. Possibly a wise idea: the vast majority of users are dumbasses who don't use anything beyond HTTP.

    MvdV> Are they charging for IPv4?

    Had you expected anything else from these faggots? :-/

    MvdV> Do new users get DS-Lite or full Dual Stack?

    Most connections are IPv4-only, some are dual-stack. Most links are IPoE (standard IP over ethernet, generally 10...100 Mbit/s, sometimes more, IPv6 ready), but there still exist a number of *DSL connections (IPv4-only, no options for IPv6).

    I guess Russia would be the next :-)
    MvdV> Yeah ;-)

    I think I'd one of the first to test it.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Alexey Vissarionov on Mon Oct 28 06:47:12 2019
    On 28/10/2019 01:00, Alexey Vissarionov -> Michiel van der Vlist wrote:

    MvdV>> Are they charging for IPv4?

    Had you expected anything else from these faggots? :-/

    Is there some connection between sexual proclivities and business practices in your part of the world?

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to David Drummond on Sun Oct 27 23:05:54 2019
    Hello David,

    On Monday October 28 2019 06:47, you wrote to Alexey Vissarionov:

    MvdV>>> Are they charging for IPv4?

    Had you expected anything else from these faggots? :-/

    Is there some connection between sexual proclivities and business practices in your part of the world?

    Regarding IPv6, it could very well be. The difference between six and sex is only one letter.

    And now to something completely different: how is your IPv6? I see that your node is only reachable via IPv4 at the moment. So what are your plans? Does your ISP offer IPv6? If not, ae your planning a tunnel? Are you considering changing ISP?

    Tell us about your plans to make your node IPv6 capable.

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Oct 28 10:54:00 2019
    On 10-27-19 23:05, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to David Drummond <=-

    Is there some connection between sexual proclivities and business practices in your part of the world?

    Regarding IPv6, it could very well be. The difference between six and
    sex is only one letter.

    Or which side of the ditch (Tasman Sea) you're on (any Kiwis in here? :D ).

    And now to something completely different: how is your IPv6? I see that your node is only reachable via IPv4 at the moment. So what are your plans? Does your ISP offer IPv6? If not, ae your planning a tunnel? Are you considering changing ISP?

    Tell us about your plans to make your node IPv6 capable.

    Internode provides native IPv6 by default. :)


    ... I know Karate... and several other Japanese words
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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Oct 28 10:21:07 2019
    On 28/10/2019 08:05, Michiel van der Vlist -> David Drummond wrote:

    MvdV>>>> Are they charging for IPv4?

    Had you expected anything else from these faggots? :-/

    Is there some connection between sexual proclivities and business
    practices in your part of the world?

    MvdV> Regarding IPv6, it could very well be. The difference between six and
    MvdV> sex is only one letter.

    Hmm - I hadn't thought of that.

    MvdV> And now to something completely different: how is your IPv6? I see that
    MvdV> your node is only reachable via IPv4 at the moment. So what are your
    MvdV> plans? Does your ISP offer IPv6?

    My node runs at another domicile. I don't know if IP6 is available there.

    MvdV> If not, are your planning a tunnel? Are you considering changing ISP?

    No, neither of the above are in my control. I am not planning to re-home my node.

    MvdV> Tell us about your plans to make your node IPv6 capable.

    None at the moment although I monitor this echo in case the situation changes. At this point I don't see any advantage to changing - other than to allow direct access from IP6 only nodes. The last direct access to my node from anyone was ...

    I have surrendered my NC-ship just recently, my enthusiasm for Fidonet has seriously waned of late.

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Tony Langdon on Mon Oct 28 11:39:36 2019
    On 28/10/2019 10:54, Tony Langdon -> Michiel van der Vlist wrote:

    Is there some connection between sexual proclivities and business
    practices in your part of the world?

    Regarding IPv6, it could very well be. The difference between six and
    sex is only one letter.

    Or which side of the ditch (Tasman Sea) you're on (any Kiwis in here? :D ).

    Although I've lived in Australia for nearly 40 years I still hold an Aotearoa passport.

    I don't say "sux" (nor "fush 'n chups") any more :)

    Now how do I fit "IP6" into this?

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to David Drummond on Mon Oct 28 19:29:00 2019
    On 10-28-19 11:39, David Drummond wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I don't say "sux" (nor "fush 'n chups") any more :)

    :D

    Now how do I fit "IP6" into this?

    Hmm, native or with a tunnel. :D


    ... Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.
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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Alexey Vissarionov on Mon Oct 28 12:11:28 2019
    Hello Alexey,

    On Sunday October 27 2019 18:00, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> How much IPv4 is left in Russia? Do providers still have some
    MvdV>> in stock?

    They have some, but offer CGNATed addresses (RFC6598 100.64/10) by default.

    For IPv4 only too? Or only in combination wit DS-Lite?

    Possibly a wise idea: the vast majority of users are
    dumbasses who don't use anything beyond HTTP.

    CGNAT breaks the original design of full end to end connection.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Mon Oct 28 12:20:58 2019
    Hello Tony,

    On Monday October 28 2019 10:54, you wrote to me:

    Tell us about your plans to make your node IPv6 capable.

    Internode provides native IPv6 by default. :)

    So no more excuses then? ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Oct 28 23:51:00 2019
    Good ${greeting_time}, Michiel!

    28 Oct 2019 14:37:00, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>>> How much IPv4 is left in Russia? Do providers still have some
    MvdV>>> in stock?
    They have some, but offer CGNATed addresses (RFC6598 100.64/10)
    by default.
    MvdV> For IPv4 only too?

    Yes.

    MvdV> Or only in combination wit DS-Lite?

    We don't have DS-Lite. Or at least I've never seen it here.

    Most connections are IPoe, either IPv4-only or dual-stack. Also there are remains of *DSL connections (PPPoE, IPv4-only) somewhere.

    Possibly a wise idea: the vast majority of users are dumbasses
    who don't use anything beyond HTTP.
    MvdV> CGNAT breaks the original design of full end to end connection.

    Most users need exactly this. Anything else may be easily provided on request.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to David Drummond on Tue Oct 29 00:13:22 2019
    Good ${greeting_time}, David!

    28 Oct 2019 06:47:12, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>>> Are they charging for IPv4?
    Had you expected anything else from these faggots? :-/
    Is there some connection between sexual proclivities and business practices in your part of the world?

    At least both appear to be caused by genetic defect.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... :wq!
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to David Drummond on Mon Oct 28 23:11:50 2019
    Hello David,

    On Monday October 28 2019 10:21, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> And now to something completely different: how is your IPv6? I
    MvdV>> see that your node is only reachable via IPv4 at the moment. So
    MvdV>> what are your plans? Does your ISP offer IPv6?

    My node runs at another domicile. I don't know if IP6 is available
    there.

    This is completely new to me: a sysop participating here that does not know if IPv6 is available from the ISP that supplies the connection for his node...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Oct 29 09:48:57 2019
    On 29/10/2019 08:11, Michiel van der Vlist -> David Drummond wrote:

    MvdV>>> what are your plans? Does your ISP offer IPv6?

    My node runs at another domicile. I don't know if IP6 is available
    there.

    MvdV> This is completely new to me: a sysop participating here that does not
    MvdV> know if IPv6 is available from the ISP that supplies the connection for
    MvdV> his node...

    There is a first time for everything.

    The ISP used at the location of my node is the same as the one I use here at home. As yet they are not offering IPV6 to the masses.

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Alexey Vissarionov on Tue Oct 29 10:23:50 2019
    Hi Alexey!

    28 Oct 2019 23:51, from Alexey Vissarionov -> Michiel van der Vlist:

    We don't have DS-Lite. Or at least I've never seen it here.
    Most connections are IPoe, either IPv4-only or dual-stack.

    Interesting!
    Normally you have a nid level of crappyness between only CGNAT and full dualstack with 2 public IP addresses.
    DS-Lite is a good alternative to offer CGNAT on IPv4 but offer a full IPv6 public subnet(s).

    CU, Ricsi

    ... A sine curve goes off to infinity or at least the end of the blackboard. --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Sattinger's Law: "It works better if you plug it in." (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Alexey Vissarionov on Tue Oct 29 10:25:52 2019
    Hi Alexey!

    29 Oct 2019 00:13, from Alexey Vissarionov -> David Drummond:

    Had you expected anything else from these faggots? :-/
    Is there some connection between sexual proclivities and business
    practices in your part of the world?
    At least both appear to be caused by genetic defect.

    ???
    Please provide some scientific evidence linking human homosexuality to genetic "defects".

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Use your MasterCard to pay your Visa bill. (2:310/31)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to All on Tue Oct 29 10:43:46 2019
    Hello Richard,

    On Tuesday October 29 2019 10:25, you wrote to Alexey Vissarionov:

    At least both appear to be caused by genetic defect.

    ???
    Please provide some scientific evidence linking human homosexuality to genetic "defects".

    I see no link with IPv6.

    So...

    Michiel van der Vlist. (Moderator)


    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Richard Menedetter on Tue Oct 29 21:48:48 2019
    Good ${greeting_time}, Richard!

    29 Oct 2019 10:23:50, you wrote to me:

    We don't have DS-Lite. Or at least I've never seen it here.
    Most connections are IPoe, either IPv4-only or dual-stack.
    Interesting! Normally you have a nid level of crappyness between
    only CGNAT and full dualstack with 2 public IP addresses. DS-Lite
    is a good alternative to offer CGNAT on IPv4 but offer a full IPv6
    public subnet(s).

    FS... that's dual stack (why lite?), regardless of whether IPv4 is CGNATed.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Alexey Vissarionov on Tue Oct 29 20:17:14 2019
    Hi Alexey!

    29 Oct 2019 21:48, from Alexey Vissarionov -> Richard Menedetter:

    We don't have DS-Lite. Or at least I've never seen it here.
    Most connections are IPoe, either IPv4-only or dual-stack.
    Interesting! Normally you have a nid level of crappyness between
    only CGNAT and full dualstack with 2 public IP addresses. DS-Lite
    is a good alternative to offer CGNAT on IPv4 but offer a full
    IPv6 public subnet(s).
    FS... that's dual stack (why lite?), regardless of whether IPv4 is CGNATed.

    Because usually DS is NOT regardless weather you have a public v4 or not.
    (DS usually means public v4/public v6; DS-Lite if you only have a public v6 address)

    DS-Lite is specified here:
    https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6333
    Dual-Stack Lite Broadband Deployments Following IPv4 Exhaustion

    CU, Ricsi

    ... I DO have a firm grip on reality! Now I can choke the life out of it!
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Congestion on roads is called intimacy in night clubs. (2:310/31)